Quick Question, are comments turned off by default for non-subscribers? I simply can't believe the number of lead-brain centrists on these boards.
The Gawker/Deadspin/Splinter comments were as good as the comments, mostly because these bad-faith idiots were drowned out or chased out.
If all the Biden Riders are paying you guys 100 a year or whatever, great, get that paper but otherwise, no one who shares your politics needs to hear libs make the same dumb bad arguments they've been making nonstop for the last six years.
Everything on your wishlist? EVERYTHING? No healthcare, no meaningful climate legislation, subsidies for oil companies, border separation continues, deficit concern-trolling, austerity, drone strikes, etc, etc.
If none of those things are on your wishlist, your wishlist can get fucked.
Yea that's the problem. Voting Trump out means a democrat who deports more hispanics than he did. Who blows up American kids with drones and laughs about it in the press' faces. Who prosecutes whistleblowers who reveal the same abuses Biden's boss ran on ending.
You want that, we don't. We don't owe you shit, unless you give us something. Good luck going back to eight years of empty-headed brunches while the good team oversees the confiscation of all black wealth.
Im a a paid subscriber and I say this with the full weight my 8 bucks a month brings: Fuck Trump, Fuck Biden and fuck you democrats already trying to blame others for a potential loss thats wholly on you guys. You're worst than when Simmons uses his bs reverse jinx.
I find Biden remarkably similar to Trump. Biden is insulting, dismissive, combative and narcissistic just like Trump. How anyone believes either of them to be "decent" or having "empathy" or a "good man" I'll never understand. Biden has displayed the opposite his entire career.
I feel like 'this is a sound electoral strategy' is about as much as anyone can say for the DNC platform. At least on Discourse Blog Bingo it's the free square.
Probably not great for people who are *not* DNC politicians, consultants and other assorted remorae, who generally are materially interested most in what happens AFTER the electoral strategy works or doesn't.
It feels kind of like the left has been maneuvered into a goddamn corner, but I still think it's important not to let relief lead to apathy if we manage to get orange satan out. We don't exactly have all the time in the world, especially with a climate that's quickly turning deadly. "Just Beat Trump" isn't good enough, yet the democrats seem content to push an agenda this basically point at him and shrug.
What exactly is the purpose of this essay, though? Our country is on fire. We are trying to put it out by voting out the current administration. Hand-wringing about how imperfect the Dems are accomplishes nothing more than deflating people's enthusiasm, possibly to the extent of convincing them all politicians are corrupt and why bother voting at all. I mean... is that really useful? Publish this after the election, when hopefully we can begin assembling a functional government again. Until then, circle the wagons, man.
"what is the purpose of this" thank you for articulating the worry that gnaws at my soul every time i do a blog. Seriously though in response to your question: I totally get why people react this way. There's a lot at stake right now! But I think a) it would be disingenuous of me—and a total disservice to you—to suppress what I feel about Joe Biden and the Democrats, and b) elections are actually a really important time to keep holding politicians' feet to the fire precisely *because* there is so much at stake. I got more into that here (sorry if you're not a subscriber, it's paywalled): https://discourseblog.substack.com/p/the-system-is-back
Very fair point, Jack, I just wanted to articulate the lizard-brain fear many of us have of repeating election night 2016 again. I'm a furloughed worker so am putting pause on subscriptions, but I appreciate having the opportunity to chime in anyway.
Fair enough, if it's a free post. I'm not sure how you'd tell once you're subscribed.
Then again, every comment board/forum I've ever ever seen has either been drowned in white nationalists or bad-faith libs unless they either charge for post privileges or moderate ruthlessly. Usually requires both. Dunno how Kinja managed to dodge that bullet.
Anyway, it's your place, engage with this person however you think is right, I'm just so tired of these arguments where the Libs create a mess and then scream at the left when they don't come running to clean it up. It's been 20 years and I've yet to see a single person come around. They still hate Nader, even though they now love W.
At least they usually got clowned on and ratioed to hell by the rest of the people.
Substack isn't there yet, we need like 100 leftist commentors, funnier and meaner and smarter than I am, for every 'sara' to make these people not dominate.
Seriously, half the responses to articles here are centrists demanding an explanation of "Why Did You Even Write That?", or these Swann's Way length 'well I'm a GOOD liberal and I really Believe Women and think Black Lives Matter..." and then close it out with "And thats why I'm voting Biden and you should to"
A sizeable number of the comments on any of these articles are by people who hold literally nothing in common with the writers, aren't supporting their work, and are only here hatereading and posting because a grandkid who won't speak to them linked the article in a facebook thread they're stalking.
Having these conversations now is just as important as having them after the election. First, this is what building a consensus looks like. People fight and call each other on their bullshit. Second, we have leverage. If the center wants us to shut up before the election, then they can actually give us something. Third, the dems-in-disarray crap is talking heads nonsense. I've knocked on thousands of voter's doors and never have I heard. "I want to vote democrat but they can't get on the same page." You circle the wagon by holding your nose and voting for Biden/Harris on election night -- Not by shutting up.
OK. But I'm telling you, as someone marooned in a very red part of Pennsylvania, that what *I* hear from prospective voters is they don't like Trump but they're afraid the Democrats are scary commies. So some of us have to work on coaxing these people on board, and it isn't going to get done using the farthest-left talking points. Even if I believe in those points, which I do!
Ten poor black nonvoters who don't vote cause they feel alienated, and rightly so, are worth over ten times one rural white voter who would vote for a pedophile instead of a dem. Not the other way around, as the news and DNC would have you believe.
I grew up in Monroe County. We don't want those voters if they won't vote for 'commie' stuff. And if you live in a 'very red part' of PA there aren't enough of those voters to matter. So fuck em.
Go to Philly, or Pittsburgh, or Harrisburg or hell even Scranton, where actual voters live in actual number, and find the people who aren't voting and ask THEM why they're not voting for a democrats, if at all. I guarantee you it's not cause their fox-poisoned crack-brains have internalized a bunch of nazi propaganda.
You are absolutely correct. I grew up in deep red upstate New York. My family is a bunch of Trump supporters. Some of them can be reached, some of them can't be reached. But no one can be reached with talking points centrist or otherwise. Voters talk about policy and talking points as a defense mechanism. To persuade you need to talk through those defense mechanisms to find the things animating the voter and connecting with that. You reach them by sitting down with them and talking about that fear and where that fear comes from. You talk with them about your fears and where those fears come from. The policy discussion and the voter persuasion discussion are two very different conversations.
Due to your situation I'll recommend taking a look at Beau of the Fifth Column on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2cxHr7RkpI <-- For example. He's got a lot of great vids on the subject. A lot of them approaching the whole thing from the coaxing people to see things with reason.
Just to role play what that would look like. I'll knock on the door of someone who isn't attracted to Trump but otherwise is leaning republican. They come out and I introduce myself, then I'll ask a question. Something like "so what are your concerns in this election." -- the voter responds "I don't like how Trump is dividing this country but the Democrats are all commies." -- My response would be something along the lines of "Yeah, I know that some of the ideas can sound pretty far out there but let me tell you why I do this. I had a good job but then I suffered a severe depressive incident that caused me to lose my job. Right then, when I needed healthcare the most. I couldn't get it. I didn't have savings because I was paying over $1000 in student loans a month, plus rent that has gone through the roof over the past few years. I personally feel that something needs to give so that I can get my family back on track. But tell me about what you're going through."
You had the chance to circle the wagons in the primary and you blew it. You voted in the wrong guy, and expected everyone to fall in line. Worked so well in 00, 04, and 16 why wouldn't it work now?
But that's exactly the point. Our country is on fire, and simply voting out the current administration is not enough to "put the fire out" like you claim it is. And before you say that well, even if Biden doesn't fix everything, at least he's better than Trump, sure, that's true. But if Biden doesn't even try to address the factors that brought us Trump, the next Trump will be even worse and 10 times more competent.
"Publish this after the election, when hopefully we can begin assembling a functional government again."
Yes, let's not hold anyone who may have power in the future accountable for their contributions in making the world a worse place accountable by refusing to speak about their actions in real terms and give them everything they want. Then, after they are rewarded, they will surely listen to us. I am a giant toddler!
All I really care about is getting that cheeto out of office in November, which is why we should encourage Biden to move to the center and support policies a majority of Americans want, like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All, which will help us get out the VOTE and get us out of this nightmare!
Voting centrists in on a platform of 'Fuck Medicare for all, over my dead body will it happen' and "encouraging them to move to the center and support policies a majority of Americans want" is basically trickledown for libs.
Also, nice mask-off moment when she acknowledges the heavy lifting required to get Biden to even move from right to center.
Sorry this was just an trolly way to incept the idea that M4A/GND are center positions, and that him adopting those policies would help him get elected
This essay reminds me at least that just voting Democratic should not be the sole extent of my participation in the presidential election. It's to demand more than just a return to America before the Orange Skull starting corrupting the federal government. That more includes public investigations and even prosecutions of anyone the Orange Skull ever appointed to public office. Post-election political complacency is off the menu.
Quick Question, are comments turned off by default for non-subscribers? I simply can't believe the number of lead-brain centrists on these boards.
The Gawker/Deadspin/Splinter comments were as good as the comments, mostly because these bad-faith idiots were drowned out or chased out.
If all the Biden Riders are paying you guys 100 a year or whatever, great, get that paper but otherwise, no one who shares your politics needs to hear libs make the same dumb bad arguments they've been making nonstop for the last six years.
"as good as the articles", sorry. Earlyposting.
Or maybe some of us just believe voting Trump out trumps checking off everything on our wishlist. But good luck with your way.
Everything on your wishlist? EVERYTHING? No healthcare, no meaningful climate legislation, subsidies for oil companies, border separation continues, deficit concern-trolling, austerity, drone strikes, etc, etc.
If none of those things are on your wishlist, your wishlist can get fucked.
She's the human version of the 'If Hillary won I'd be at brunch right now' signs.
Lol, that's your only goal. Dust the hands off when we get him out I guess.
Yea that's the problem. Voting Trump out means a democrat who deports more hispanics than he did. Who blows up American kids with drones and laughs about it in the press' faces. Who prosecutes whistleblowers who reveal the same abuses Biden's boss ran on ending.
You want that, we don't. We don't owe you shit, unless you give us something. Good luck going back to eight years of empty-headed brunches while the good team oversees the confiscation of all black wealth.
I can’t imagine having this little ambition for a better future
Im a a paid subscriber and I say this with the full weight my 8 bucks a month brings: Fuck Trump, Fuck Biden and fuck you democrats already trying to blame others for a potential loss thats wholly on you guys. You're worst than when Simmons uses his bs reverse jinx.
I find Biden remarkably similar to Trump. Biden is insulting, dismissive, combative and narcissistic just like Trump. How anyone believes either of them to be "decent" or having "empathy" or a "good man" I'll never understand. Biden has displayed the opposite his entire career.
I feel like 'this is a sound electoral strategy' is about as much as anyone can say for the DNC platform. At least on Discourse Blog Bingo it's the free square.
Probably not great for people who are *not* DNC politicians, consultants and other assorted remorae, who generally are materially interested most in what happens AFTER the electoral strategy works or doesn't.
It feels kind of like the left has been maneuvered into a goddamn corner, but I still think it's important not to let relief lead to apathy if we manage to get orange satan out. We don't exactly have all the time in the world, especially with a climate that's quickly turning deadly. "Just Beat Trump" isn't good enough, yet the democrats seem content to push an agenda this basically point at him and shrug.
Basically, we're fucked coming or going.
What exactly is the purpose of this essay, though? Our country is on fire. We are trying to put it out by voting out the current administration. Hand-wringing about how imperfect the Dems are accomplishes nothing more than deflating people's enthusiasm, possibly to the extent of convincing them all politicians are corrupt and why bother voting at all. I mean... is that really useful? Publish this after the election, when hopefully we can begin assembling a functional government again. Until then, circle the wagons, man.
"what is the purpose of this" thank you for articulating the worry that gnaws at my soul every time i do a blog. Seriously though in response to your question: I totally get why people react this way. There's a lot at stake right now! But I think a) it would be disingenuous of me—and a total disservice to you—to suppress what I feel about Joe Biden and the Democrats, and b) elections are actually a really important time to keep holding politicians' feet to the fire precisely *because* there is so much at stake. I got more into that here (sorry if you're not a subscriber, it's paywalled): https://discourseblog.substack.com/p/the-system-is-back
Very fair point, Jack, I just wanted to articulate the lizard-brain fear many of us have of repeating election night 2016 again. I'm a furloughed worker so am putting pause on subscriptions, but I appreciate having the opportunity to chime in anyway.
thanks so much for supporting us in any way you can!
Jack, why is a 'Substack-egg' allowed to post at all if they haven't paid you guys for the privilege?!
our community is large and varied, and i think it's fair that everyone gets a chance to chime in on free posts
Fair enough, if it's a free post. I'm not sure how you'd tell once you're subscribed.
Then again, every comment board/forum I've ever ever seen has either been drowned in white nationalists or bad-faith libs unless they either charge for post privileges or moderate ruthlessly. Usually requires both. Dunno how Kinja managed to dodge that bullet.
Anyway, it's your place, engage with this person however you think is right, I'm just so tired of these arguments where the Libs create a mess and then scream at the left when they don't come running to clean it up. It's been 20 years and I've yet to see a single person come around. They still hate Nader, even though they now love W.
"Dunno how Kinja managed to dodge that bullet." idk, a lot of Splinter's commenters were pretty right of the content.
At least they usually got clowned on and ratioed to hell by the rest of the people.
Substack isn't there yet, we need like 100 leftist commentors, funnier and meaner and smarter than I am, for every 'sara' to make these people not dominate.
Seriously, half the responses to articles here are centrists demanding an explanation of "Why Did You Even Write That?", or these Swann's Way length 'well I'm a GOOD liberal and I really Believe Women and think Black Lives Matter..." and then close it out with "And thats why I'm voting Biden and you should to"
A sizeable number of the comments on any of these articles are by people who hold literally nothing in common with the writers, aren't supporting their work, and are only here hatereading and posting because a grandkid who won't speak to them linked the article in a facebook thread they're stalking.
https://discourseblog.substack.com/p/the-system-is-back
Having these conversations now is just as important as having them after the election. First, this is what building a consensus looks like. People fight and call each other on their bullshit. Second, we have leverage. If the center wants us to shut up before the election, then they can actually give us something. Third, the dems-in-disarray crap is talking heads nonsense. I've knocked on thousands of voter's doors and never have I heard. "I want to vote democrat but they can't get on the same page." You circle the wagon by holding your nose and voting for Biden/Harris on election night -- Not by shutting up.
OK. But I'm telling you, as someone marooned in a very red part of Pennsylvania, that what *I* hear from prospective voters is they don't like Trump but they're afraid the Democrats are scary commies. So some of us have to work on coaxing these people on board, and it isn't going to get done using the farthest-left talking points. Even if I believe in those points, which I do!
Ten poor black nonvoters who don't vote cause they feel alienated, and rightly so, are worth over ten times one rural white voter who would vote for a pedophile instead of a dem. Not the other way around, as the news and DNC would have you believe.
I grew up in Monroe County. We don't want those voters if they won't vote for 'commie' stuff. And if you live in a 'very red part' of PA there aren't enough of those voters to matter. So fuck em.
Go to Philly, or Pittsburgh, or Harrisburg or hell even Scranton, where actual voters live in actual number, and find the people who aren't voting and ask THEM why they're not voting for a democrats, if at all. I guarantee you it's not cause their fox-poisoned crack-brains have internalized a bunch of nazi propaganda.
You are absolutely correct. I grew up in deep red upstate New York. My family is a bunch of Trump supporters. Some of them can be reached, some of them can't be reached. But no one can be reached with talking points centrist or otherwise. Voters talk about policy and talking points as a defense mechanism. To persuade you need to talk through those defense mechanisms to find the things animating the voter and connecting with that. You reach them by sitting down with them and talking about that fear and where that fear comes from. You talk with them about your fears and where those fears come from. The policy discussion and the voter persuasion discussion are two very different conversations.
Due to your situation I'll recommend taking a look at Beau of the Fifth Column on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2cxHr7RkpI <-- For example. He's got a lot of great vids on the subject. A lot of them approaching the whole thing from the coaxing people to see things with reason.
Just to role play what that would look like. I'll knock on the door of someone who isn't attracted to Trump but otherwise is leaning republican. They come out and I introduce myself, then I'll ask a question. Something like "so what are your concerns in this election." -- the voter responds "I don't like how Trump is dividing this country but the Democrats are all commies." -- My response would be something along the lines of "Yeah, I know that some of the ideas can sound pretty far out there but let me tell you why I do this. I had a good job but then I suffered a severe depressive incident that caused me to lose my job. Right then, when I needed healthcare the most. I couldn't get it. I didn't have savings because I was paying over $1000 in student loans a month, plus rent that has gone through the roof over the past few years. I personally feel that something needs to give so that I can get my family back on track. But tell me about what you're going through."
You had the chance to circle the wagons in the primary and you blew it. You voted in the wrong guy, and expected everyone to fall in line. Worked so well in 00, 04, and 16 why wouldn't it work now?
But that's exactly the point. Our country is on fire, and simply voting out the current administration is not enough to "put the fire out" like you claim it is. And before you say that well, even if Biden doesn't fix everything, at least he's better than Trump, sure, that's true. But if Biden doesn't even try to address the factors that brought us Trump, the next Trump will be even worse and 10 times more competent.
"Publish this after the election, when hopefully we can begin assembling a functional government again."
Yes, let's not hold anyone who may have power in the future accountable for their contributions in making the world a worse place accountable by refusing to speak about their actions in real terms and give them everything they want. Then, after they are rewarded, they will surely listen to us. I am a giant toddler!
All I really care about is getting that cheeto out of office in November, which is why we should encourage Biden to move to the center and support policies a majority of Americans want, like the Green New Deal and Medicare for All, which will help us get out the VOTE and get us out of this nightmare!
Stew? More like "stewed TOMATO," AMIRITE?!?!?!
Voting centrists in on a platform of 'Fuck Medicare for all, over my dead body will it happen' and "encouraging them to move to the center and support policies a majority of Americans want" is basically trickledown for libs.
Also, nice mask-off moment when she acknowledges the heavy lifting required to get Biden to even move from right to center.
Sorry this was just an trolly way to incept the idea that M4A/GND are center positions, and that him adopting those policies would help him get elected
This essay reminds me at least that just voting Democratic should not be the sole extent of my participation in the presidential election. It's to demand more than just a return to America before the Orange Skull starting corrupting the federal government. That more includes public investigations and even prosecutions of anyone the Orange Skull ever appointed to public office. Post-election political complacency is off the menu.