Can't help but notice that the real sharp drop in Democrats who support Israel comes in 2025, not 2023 or 2024. There are a lot of rank and file Democrats who currently are mad at Israel because it harmed their favorite voteball team, not necessarily because of the genocide. Let's just see if that position actually holds when Democrats begin winning back power.
People don't think "I'm mad at Israel because Israel committing genocide cost Democrats the election" and only THEN realize that ISRAEL IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE. No, that comes first, then any calculation about electoral effects.
I disagree, because that's not what they're thinking. They still don't think it's a genocide. They definitely think this is only happening because of Netanyahu. Those types of liberals. What they're thinking is "Israel did *a little too much* war, and it cost Democrats the election."
The funny thing is that they're actually doing the thing that Israelis and Zionists always attack anti-Zionists for supposedly doing: viewing Israel and the Palestinians solely in an instrumental fashion, as externalities which can affect their favorite voteball team, not as human beings.
Well said. We all have to keep saying it, over and over. The Zionists have been promoting the idea that supporting Israel unconditionally is pan essential aspect of being Jewish at least since the Nakba in 1948. That equation is falling apart under the continual impacts of the genocide in Gaza on public opinion around the world. As governments in the global Notth continue to support mass murder, they are losing their legitimacy with their own people. As those governments also go on supporting ecocide by giant corporations, they are further delegitimizing the entire global system. That’s the only (bloodstained) “silver lining” of this monstrous crime. Time to get organized, not just for piecemeal defense and increasingly brittle reforms but for fundamental transformation.
You mean, like the notion that Israel is not slaughtering tens of thousands of people in Gaza and offering the survivors the choice of exile or death? Jonah, billions of people around the world are watching it happen on social media—including many gleeful atrocity videos made by IDF soldiers and pilots. That’s the reality. And because Israel’s clearly stated goals coincide with those of the US-led empire—which runs on oil—the US funds and arms the mass murder. The white supremacists who lead the empire agree with the Zionists that Palestinians have no rights Israel and the rest of the imperial coalition are bound to respect. As the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir say out loud and “liberal” Zionists say less loudly, Palestinians are “animals,” subhumans, and their removal from land they have occupied and cared for for many generations is a “necessity.”
In the blood-swimming bubble that is Zionism today, the ICC, the ICJ, and the UN, not to mention numerous scholars of genocide, are all peddlers of antisemitic “lies.” This is denial as a core personality trait. One day soon, if you have any human decency left, you will recognize the terrible truth. But by then it will likely be too late for the children of Gaza and the West Bank—and morally, for the inhabitants of Israel and for Zionism.
More and more young American and other diasporan Jews, thankfully, are rejecting Zionism. That rejection is going to go on growing, even as actual antisemitism also grows. And the blame for that growth, which is already harming Jews everywhere, falls squarely on the shoulders of Zionism, which for two generations has equated itself with Jewish identity. You have made this shame your shame.
Well said. We all have to keep saying it, over and over. The Zionists have been promoting the idea that supporting Israel unconditionally is an essential aspect of being Jewish at least since the Nakba in 1948. That equation is falling apart under the continual impacts of the genocide in Gaza on public opinion around the world. As governments in the global Notth continue to support mass murder, they are losing their legitimacy with their own people. As those governments also go on supporting ecocide by giant corporations, they are further delegitimizing the entire global system. That’s the only (bloodstained) “silver lining” of this monstrous crime. Time to get organized, not just for piecemeal defense and increasingly brittle reforms but for fundamental transformation.
You mean, like the notion that Israel is not slaughtering tens of thousands of people in Gaza and offering the survivors the choice of exile or death? Jonah, billions of people around the world are watching it happen on social media—including many gleeful atrocity videos made by IDF soldiers and pilots. That’s the reality. And because Israel’s clearly stated goals coincide with those of the US-led empire—which runs on oil—the US funds and arms the mass murder. The white supremacists who lead the empire agree with the Zionists that Palestinians have no rights Israel and the rest of the imperial coalition are bound to respect. As the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir say out loud and “liberal” Zionists say less loudly, Palestinians are “animals,” subhumans, and their removal from land they have occupied and cared for for many generations is a “necessity.”
In the blood-swimming bubble that is Zionism today, the ICC, the ICJ, and the UN, not to mention numerous scholars of genocide, are all peddlers of antisemitic “lies.” This is denial as a core personality trait. MOne day soon, if you have any human decency left, you will recognize the terrible truth. But by then it will likely be too late for the children of Gaza and the West Bank—and morally, for the inhabitants of Israel and for Zionism.
More and more young American and other diasporan Jews, thankfully, are rejecting Zionism. That rejection is going to go on growing, even as actual antisemitism also grows. And the blame for that growth, which is already harming Jews everywhere, falls squarely on the shoulders of Zionism, which for two generations has equated itself with Jewish identity.
You clearly can’t see how utterly pathetic your responses are. You don’t refute the facts I cite because you can’t. Literally millions of people in Europe and North America have demonstrated against what Israel is doing and against its stated intention to empty the Territories of Palestinians.
Jonah, look at the drone footage of what used to be Gaza. Read accounts the NYT by health workers on the ground there of the pattern of IDF head shots found in the bodies of children--17,000 children killed to date: blown up by bombs and missiles, shot deliberately at close range or by heavy automatic-weapons fire on a crowd of civilians. And face the fact—reported in the Israeli press—that at least 500 of the Israelis who died on 10/6 were killed by IDF soldiers according to the Hannibal Directive.
Hamas does not control the UN, the ICJ, the ICC, or the tens of thousands of Jews around the world now protesting Israel’s monstrous crimes.
But you won’t face any of it. You’ll cling to your handful of factoids and threadbare rationalizations to protect yourself from the truth—just as Zionists have been doing since 1948, when they convinced themselves that they had a “right” to all of Palestine. Also: read the impeccably sourced Wikipedia page on the Nakba. But you won’t do that either. For you, any number of Palestinian civilians can be slaughtered in "revenge" for the Hamas incursion--current conservative estimate. That's because you don't think Palestinians are human. So nearly 59,000 confirmed dead is an acceptable punishment for a desperate revolt against the continual abuse, expropriation, torture and murder inflicted on them by Israel. By my definition, that makes you a fascist.
When someone with a masculine first name changes it to a feminine one (or vice versa) what does that usually signify? Your question is not the flex you think it is. Also, I didn’t “just” change it—I’ve been going by Emma with family and friends and on social media for about 3 years now. But you wouldn’t know that.
Dude. This is not true. This is fantasy. This is propaganda.
The social media propaganda push was carefully orchestrated. Hamas-linked student groups in the United States reactivated their dormant social media accounts on October 7, the same days at terrorist attacks. It was coordinated. The propaganda push is part of the war effort.
Hamas has a choice between returning the hostages and surrendering, or continuing. They continue, because they consider their people expendable, and useful for their propaganda effort.
And it is a disgusting slander -- and I am sick of hearing it -- when the Palestinian movement was has never accepted moderation -- you cannot even get the student activist groups to dialogue with Jewish students. They refuse to. Their job is to demonize and harass those with whom they disagree. Never dialogue. Never sharing.
No one has been offered their own state more times than the Palestinians. Arafat turned it down, even at the behest of Bill Clinton. Their goal has always been all-or-nothing.
Yet you still blame the Jews, still blame the Israelis, for not being complicit in their own destruction.
I am sick of this bullshit. I am sick of this crap. No country would tolerate what happened on October 7 without taking steps to make sure it wasn't going to repeat. What did America do after 9/11? What did America do after Pearl Harbor? Turn the other cheek?
But it's typical because Israel is accused of the crimes Progressives hate themselves for. "Stole the land." Except Jews have always been on the land. "Committed Genocide." Except Israel did not commit genocide. It defended itself in wars it did not start.
But ultimately it comes down to the real crux of the dark side of Christianity.
I'm not a Christian and haven't been since I was a child, first of all. I'm much closer in every way but heritage to being a Jew. I grew up among Jews, I've struggled alongside Jewish comrades, I have a Jewish life partner of two decades. I love the Jewish heritage and loathe antisemitism with a passion. *For the same reasons*, as I've explained, I loathe Zionism. As to the rest, you willfully misread me. "You still blame the Jews, still blame the Israelis [...]" I've said *repeatedly* that the conflation of Jewish identity with Zionism and with Israel is a monstrous lie that serves only the Zionists, and serves them only in the short term. You can't mentally break the Zionist equation, whose corollary is that to be anti-Zionist is to be antisemitic. Tell that to the Shoah survivors who today march in the front lines of anti-genocide demonstrations in Europe. Tell that to the inheritors of the Jewish Labor Bund in the US, whose organization was attacked and slandered and red-baited by Zionists in the 1930s and '40s. Tell that to the Jewish Socialists and Communists who opposed Zionism (I've known some.) So, in the idiom of my homeland, piss off, wanker.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
However, this fails to answer the predictable question of why they don't chant against China or Russia or the USA for that matter. I mean, the USA is 100% responsible for supporting what Israel is doing.
But that is exactly why it is appropriate for US & European publics to focus on what is happening in Gaza and less on atrocities happening elsewhere: our own governments are supporting this and we will all be held accountable by the survivors of this genocide.
By that same token, we all should probably be making more noise about Saudi Arabia and other U.S. client states who are also doing atrocities. (Some of our clients are doing atrocities *to each other*!) I know the reason Israel gets the most heat is because Israel is the one you're not allowed to criticize, but we should absolutely be equally mad about what the other clients are doing with our money, in our names.
Not a big deal but it's kind of weird to write a whole blog post acknowledging all the genocidal sadistic horrific shit the IDF is currently dong but also say that you wouldn't chant for their death
I'm not a Christian and haven't been since I was a child, first of all. I'm much closer in every way but heritage to being a Jew. I grew up among Jews, I've struggled alongside Jewish comrades, I have a Jewish life partner of two decades. I love the Jewish heritage and loathe antisemitism with a passion. *For the same reasons*, as I've explained, I loathe Zionism. As to the rest, you willfully misread me. "You still blame the Jews, still blame the Israelis [...]" I've said *repeatedly* that the conflation of Jewish identity with Zionism and with Israel is a monstrous lie that serves only the Zionists, and serves them only in the short term. You can't mentally break the Zionist equation, whose corollary is that to be anti-Zionist is to be antisemitic. Tell that to the Shoah survivors who today march in the front lines of anti-genocide demonstrations in Europe. Tell that to the inheritors of the Jewish Labor Bund in the US, whose organization was attacked and slandered and red-baited by Zionists in the 1930s and '40s. Tell that to the Jewish Socialists and Communists who opposed Zionism (I've known some.) So, in the idiom of my homeland, piss off, wanker.
Well there's a problem. You see, Israel ISN'T committing genocide. It's fighting an urban conflict that was triggered by the October 7 terrorist attack.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
Can't help but notice that the real sharp drop in Democrats who support Israel comes in 2025, not 2023 or 2024. There are a lot of rank and file Democrats who currently are mad at Israel because it harmed their favorite voteball team, not necessarily because of the genocide. Let's just see if that position actually holds when Democrats begin winning back power.
People don't think "I'm mad at Israel because Israel committing genocide cost Democrats the election" and only THEN realize that ISRAEL IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE. No, that comes first, then any calculation about electoral effects.
I disagree, because that's not what they're thinking. They still don't think it's a genocide. They definitely think this is only happening because of Netanyahu. Those types of liberals. What they're thinking is "Israel did *a little too much* war, and it cost Democrats the election."
The funny thing is that they're actually doing the thing that Israelis and Zionists always attack anti-Zionists for supposedly doing: viewing Israel and the Palestinians solely in an instrumental fashion, as externalities which can affect their favorite voteball team, not as human beings.
Well said. We all have to keep saying it, over and over. The Zionists have been promoting the idea that supporting Israel unconditionally is pan essential aspect of being Jewish at least since the Nakba in 1948. That equation is falling apart under the continual impacts of the genocide in Gaza on public opinion around the world. As governments in the global Notth continue to support mass murder, they are losing their legitimacy with their own people. As those governments also go on supporting ecocide by giant corporations, they are further delegitimizing the entire global system. That’s the only (bloodstained) “silver lining” of this monstrous crime. Time to get organized, not just for piecemeal defense and increasingly brittle reforms but for fundamental transformation.
You mean, like the notion that Israel is not slaughtering tens of thousands of people in Gaza and offering the survivors the choice of exile or death? Jonah, billions of people around the world are watching it happen on social media—including many gleeful atrocity videos made by IDF soldiers and pilots. That’s the reality. And because Israel’s clearly stated goals coincide with those of the US-led empire—which runs on oil—the US funds and arms the mass murder. The white supremacists who lead the empire agree with the Zionists that Palestinians have no rights Israel and the rest of the imperial coalition are bound to respect. As the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir say out loud and “liberal” Zionists say less loudly, Palestinians are “animals,” subhumans, and their removal from land they have occupied and cared for for many generations is a “necessity.”
In the blood-swimming bubble that is Zionism today, the ICC, the ICJ, and the UN, not to mention numerous scholars of genocide, are all peddlers of antisemitic “lies.” This is denial as a core personality trait. One day soon, if you have any human decency left, you will recognize the terrible truth. But by then it will likely be too late for the children of Gaza and the West Bank—and morally, for the inhabitants of Israel and for Zionism.
More and more young American and other diasporan Jews, thankfully, are rejecting Zionism. That rejection is going to go on growing, even as actual antisemitism also grows. And the blame for that growth, which is already harming Jews everywhere, falls squarely on the shoulders of Zionism, which for two generations has equated itself with Jewish identity. You have made this shame your shame.
Well said. We all have to keep saying it, over and over. The Zionists have been promoting the idea that supporting Israel unconditionally is an essential aspect of being Jewish at least since the Nakba in 1948. That equation is falling apart under the continual impacts of the genocide in Gaza on public opinion around the world. As governments in the global Notth continue to support mass murder, they are losing their legitimacy with their own people. As those governments also go on supporting ecocide by giant corporations, they are further delegitimizing the entire global system. That’s the only (bloodstained) “silver lining” of this monstrous crime. Time to get organized, not just for piecemeal defense and increasingly brittle reforms but for fundamental transformation.
You can repeat a lie over and over.
It remains a lie.
You mean, like the notion that Israel is not slaughtering tens of thousands of people in Gaza and offering the survivors the choice of exile or death? Jonah, billions of people around the world are watching it happen on social media—including many gleeful atrocity videos made by IDF soldiers and pilots. That’s the reality. And because Israel’s clearly stated goals coincide with those of the US-led empire—which runs on oil—the US funds and arms the mass murder. The white supremacists who lead the empire agree with the Zionists that Palestinians have no rights Israel and the rest of the imperial coalition are bound to respect. As the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir say out loud and “liberal” Zionists say less loudly, Palestinians are “animals,” subhumans, and their removal from land they have occupied and cared for for many generations is a “necessity.”
In the blood-swimming bubble that is Zionism today, the ICC, the ICJ, and the UN, not to mention numerous scholars of genocide, are all peddlers of antisemitic “lies.” This is denial as a core personality trait. MOne day soon, if you have any human decency left, you will recognize the terrible truth. But by then it will likely be too late for the children of Gaza and the West Bank—and morally, for the inhabitants of Israel and for Zionism.
More and more young American and other diasporan Jews, thankfully, are rejecting Zionism. That rejection is going to go on growing, even as actual antisemitism also grows. And the blame for that growth, which is already harming Jews everywhere, falls squarely on the shoulders of Zionism, which for two generations has equated itself with Jewish identity.
Hey --- did you just change your name?
how very interesting. Why'd you do that?
You clearly can’t see how utterly pathetic your responses are. You don’t refute the facts I cite because you can’t. Literally millions of people in Europe and North America have demonstrated against what Israel is doing and against its stated intention to empty the Territories of Palestinians.
Jonah, look at the drone footage of what used to be Gaza. Read accounts the NYT by health workers on the ground there of the pattern of IDF head shots found in the bodies of children--17,000 children killed to date: blown up by bombs and missiles, shot deliberately at close range or by heavy automatic-weapons fire on a crowd of civilians. And face the fact—reported in the Israeli press—that at least 500 of the Israelis who died on 10/6 were killed by IDF soldiers according to the Hannibal Directive.
Hamas does not control the UN, the ICJ, the ICC, or the tens of thousands of Jews around the world now protesting Israel’s monstrous crimes.
But you won’t face any of it. You’ll cling to your handful of factoids and threadbare rationalizations to protect yourself from the truth—just as Zionists have been doing since 1948, when they convinced themselves that they had a “right” to all of Palestine. Also: read the impeccably sourced Wikipedia page on the Nakba. But you won’t do that either. For you, any number of Palestinian civilians can be slaughtered in "revenge" for the Hamas incursion--current conservative estimate. That's because you don't think Palestinians are human. So nearly 59,000 confirmed dead is an acceptable punishment for a desperate revolt against the continual abuse, expropriation, torture and murder inflicted on them by Israel. By my definition, that makes you a fascist.
When someone with a masculine first name changes it to a feminine one (or vice versa) what does that usually signify? Your question is not the flex you think it is. Also, I didn’t “just” change it—I’ve been going by Emma with family and friends and on social media for about 3 years now. But you wouldn’t know that.
Dude. This is not true. This is fantasy. This is propaganda.
The social media propaganda push was carefully orchestrated. Hamas-linked student groups in the United States reactivated their dormant social media accounts on October 7, the same days at terrorist attacks. It was coordinated. The propaganda push is part of the war effort.
Hamas has a choice between returning the hostages and surrendering, or continuing. They continue, because they consider their people expendable, and useful for their propaganda effort.
And it is a disgusting slander -- and I am sick of hearing it -- when the Palestinian movement was has never accepted moderation -- you cannot even get the student activist groups to dialogue with Jewish students. They refuse to. Their job is to demonize and harass those with whom they disagree. Never dialogue. Never sharing.
No one has been offered their own state more times than the Palestinians. Arafat turned it down, even at the behest of Bill Clinton. Their goal has always been all-or-nothing.
Yet you still blame the Jews, still blame the Israelis, for not being complicit in their own destruction.
I am sick of this bullshit. I am sick of this crap. No country would tolerate what happened on October 7 without taking steps to make sure it wasn't going to repeat. What did America do after 9/11? What did America do after Pearl Harbor? Turn the other cheek?
But it's typical because Israel is accused of the crimes Progressives hate themselves for. "Stole the land." Except Jews have always been on the land. "Committed Genocide." Except Israel did not commit genocide. It defended itself in wars it did not start.
But ultimately it comes down to the real crux of the dark side of Christianity.
You want Jews to die for your sins.
I'm not a Christian and haven't been since I was a child, first of all. I'm much closer in every way but heritage to being a Jew. I grew up among Jews, I've struggled alongside Jewish comrades, I have a Jewish life partner of two decades. I love the Jewish heritage and loathe antisemitism with a passion. *For the same reasons*, as I've explained, I loathe Zionism. As to the rest, you willfully misread me. "You still blame the Jews, still blame the Israelis [...]" I've said *repeatedly* that the conflation of Jewish identity with Zionism and with Israel is a monstrous lie that serves only the Zionists, and serves them only in the short term. You can't mentally break the Zionist equation, whose corollary is that to be anti-Zionist is to be antisemitic. Tell that to the Shoah survivors who today march in the front lines of anti-genocide demonstrations in Europe. Tell that to the inheritors of the Jewish Labor Bund in the US, whose organization was attacked and slandered and red-baited by Zionists in the 1930s and '40s. Tell that to the Jewish Socialists and Communists who opposed Zionism (I've known some.) So, in the idiom of my homeland, piss off, wanker.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
However, this fails to answer the predictable question of why they don't chant against China or Russia or the USA for that matter. I mean, the USA is 100% responsible for supporting what Israel is doing.
But that is exactly why it is appropriate for US & European publics to focus on what is happening in Gaza and less on atrocities happening elsewhere: our own governments are supporting this and we will all be held accountable by the survivors of this genocide.
By that same token, we all should probably be making more noise about Saudi Arabia and other U.S. client states who are also doing atrocities. (Some of our clients are doing atrocities *to each other*!) I know the reason Israel gets the most heat is because Israel is the one you're not allowed to criticize, but we should absolutely be equally mad about what the other clients are doing with our money, in our names.
Not a big deal but it's kind of weird to write a whole blog post acknowledging all the genocidal sadistic horrific shit the IDF is currently dong but also say that you wouldn't chant for their death
I do wonder what the reason for this is. It's far from the only time Discourse has taken this sort of line, and it's baffling to me.
I'm not a Christian and haven't been since I was a child, first of all. I'm much closer in every way but heritage to being a Jew. I grew up among Jews, I've struggled alongside Jewish comrades, I have a Jewish life partner of two decades. I love the Jewish heritage and loathe antisemitism with a passion. *For the same reasons*, as I've explained, I loathe Zionism. As to the rest, you willfully misread me. "You still blame the Jews, still blame the Israelis [...]" I've said *repeatedly* that the conflation of Jewish identity with Zionism and with Israel is a monstrous lie that serves only the Zionists, and serves them only in the short term. You can't mentally break the Zionist equation, whose corollary is that to be anti-Zionist is to be antisemitic. Tell that to the Shoah survivors who today march in the front lines of anti-genocide demonstrations in Europe. Tell that to the inheritors of the Jewish Labor Bund in the US, whose organization was attacked and slandered and red-baited by Zionists in the 1930s and '40s. Tell that to the Jewish Socialists and Communists who opposed Zionism (I've known some.) So, in the idiom of my homeland, piss off, wanker.
Well there's a problem. You see, Israel ISN'T committing genocide. It's fighting an urban conflict that was triggered by the October 7 terrorist attack.
So your thesis stands on a disgusting lie.
So tell us the real reasons?
Ahh. they are Jooooooooos. Got it.
You won't learn, will you? You won't even read my actual words.
I give up. On you, not on the people of Palestine or the Jews of the Diaspora.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
I am old enough to have been around, and I don't remember anyone chanting "death to the VJ" (the Serbian army) during the Yugoslavia wars, or to anyone in South Africa during apartheid.
Face it, this is a hate-group, not a peace movement.
It’s not the chant — it’s the clarity that rattles them.
“Death to the IDF” isn’t acceptable, but it wasn’t vague either, and that’s the real threat.
📌 Clarity scares people who’ve built careers on euphemism.
⬖ Scrawled in the margins of Frequency of Reason: https://bit.ly/4jTVv69