The deeply demoralizing comment section of this post
The mood of Blue MAGA is so far up its own ass they can look at the incineration of children and be like “I don’t think Harris promising to prevent this will poll well with the median voter”
I can't stop thinking about how this would play on the other side. Like if the GOP was courting scientists for votes (be it climate scientists or abortion providers) or even the children of immigrants (which they do in Miami, but not nationwide). I'm sure their xenophobic, older male base would feel used and taken for granted. When I see Biden and now Harris court the neocon / war criminal vote, how am I supposed to feel? How can I not conclude that the Democratic party is not for me, and doesn't really value my vote no matter where I live? I'm upset! This is not OK!
I mean, you could pay attention to the real world for just like ten seconds and see how trump is constantly talking out of both sides of his mouth about abortion and see how the anti-choice zealots realise he's obviously lying and still support him instead of crying about staying home and not voting "in principled protest" because they understand that in the real world you win elections by getting the most votes, not by being the best virtue signaler.
I was going to add to my comment that of course Trump needs the votes of both his qanon base and fools who are willing to give him a second chance to rule. The GOP has been happy to accept voters who vote against their interests. Trump fans laugh at those voters and appreciate the "sucker" vote. But for a Democratic candidate to respond to endorsements that not a single Democratic voter over 40 wants nor values is the opposite of that. The Democratic response is mainly, "no, we don't want the votes of billionaires, billionaire war criminals, and the few people left alive who think that Reagan and Bush 43 were good presidents. We don't want the votes from people who think they can whitewash their bios by endorsing Harris." Compare this the GOP, which needs millions of crossover votes. The Democrats don't need that many defectors. Why must the Democrats even think of courting those votes? We outnumber the GOP in living registered voters by about 8 Million. Maybe 10 Million. If Harris was more of an Obama Democrat and less of a Neocon, she might win this thing. It's incredible. We're seeing the Clinton 'Pied Piper' strategy play out again. The Harris campaign is not for me. It's for readers of The Atlantic and the Washington Post, the pundits, the editors, and the cable news producer class.
no, i would actually like the votes of all these people, i want as many votes as i can get.
I can also do math and if I can take away a hesitant trump voter, it'll actually count double because it'll be minus one for him and plus one for Harris, which is literally the best possible voting outcome. even if they don't vote for Harris, all these shithead republicans saying trump fucking sucks don't vote for him can hopefully move someone to say, well I'm never going to vote for Harris, but I don't want to vote for trump now either and that's still an outcome I will take because it's still minus one for him.
Exactly, for every progressive they might lose, they'll pick up two moderate republicans in the suburbs. Just like in 2016. There's no reason why Hillary Clinton style triangulating can't work a second time.
These bitter, pinched-face shitlibs and their towering condescension for anyone that disagrees with them on absolutely anything are almost certainly driving people away from voting at all every time they open their stupid f*cking mouths to unleash some more fact-free invective at all the people that are actually smarter than them. Anything the Dems do, say, or fail to say or do is fine with these fucking losers with zero actual political beliefs. It's absolutely exhausting having to listen to these dipshits reach a new low day after day in service of a candidate that seems bent on repelling the voters in her base at every opportunity.
You don’t win elections in this dumb country by winning the most votes. You win by courting an extremely small sliver of the population in a few crucial states. Hence why you have Kamala about facing on fracking and essentially embracing Trump’s border policies.
Katherine Krueger has documented this her whole life it seems. I agree. But I fail to see how Wall Street prefers that abortion be illegal. After all, it was Nixon-era Republicans who made it legal in the first place. The mistresses needed medicine.
So I think you may be missing the stories on the falling birth rates (worldwide) and how not being able to control how many children you have drives down women's wages and makes for desperation/acceptance of worse working conditions. Wall Street isn't sitting in a cabal planning, but capitalism needs people in poverty and desperate to cheapen labor. They see that America's empire abroad, the thing that made the large middle class possible, is in decline. They know that abortion is always legal to those wealthy enough. Everything is legal if you have enough money--look at Epstein, look at Diddy.
Did Harris court Dick Cheney? Did she court Gonzales? I feel like that is an overstatement of what is happening. And your point on the scientists is a good one. But that is a cult right now so that is how a cult behaves - anyone not touting the exact party line is declared an enemy. A party contains a diverse set of views but a single set of goals (in this case preserve free democracy )
She didn't court them. But why did she respond? Not responding is a choice. And it would have put some pressure on the Neocons to explain their flip. Unless, Harris secretly agreed that she would respond if she got the endorsements. We don't know, but this could have been conditional.
Not an original thought by me, but it really feels like this is an election run by two campaigns actively trying to lose. Alternatively, each party nominated the only person who could lose to their opponent. In other words, we’re reliving 2016. Again. As we apparently will be til the oceans swallow us whole.
And how’s that going? Statistically tied to a sociopathic racist, sexist antisemite (to name but a few) who tried to overthrow the government. And the Dems’ response is—as Katherine points out in the blog—to actively alienate critical portions of their base by antagonizing the left, the young, progressives, etc., by courting war criminals and loser never Trump gopers—who command no statistically significant percentage of the voting populace—and saying there’s apparently no daylight between Kamala and Biden when it comes to supporting a genocide. Brilliant strategy.
And supporting genocide is a talking point. The US aid orgs and Govt are providing 100s of millions in supplies etc to Gaza and Ukraine - you don’t do that if you support the elimination of those peoples. You may not like policies but that is not support for genocide(and what until they see Trump’s positions on those 2 - buckle up as it will actually be support for genocide
I am not. It is simple - if you care about any marginalized people anywhere in the world, it clear that one candidate consider them ‘scum’ , ‘vermin’ etc and will never help them. Many are desperate to ensure that person does not take over the most powerful nation in the world. Many are putting aside policy issues to ensure that doesn’t happen. Some are not willing to do so and they are risking things becoming much much worse on the very issues upon which Their objections rest so make their point. I respect their right do so it and it is a pincipled stand. But the above is not really in dispute is it?
The US is also supplying food, medicine, transport passages when possible, etc. Again - you may not like the policy but it isn’t genocide it is more complicated than that. Also - a lot of nations are supplying weapons so it isn’t like the US is solely enabling anything. The hard reality is that Israel is the only anchor in a part of the world that is both energy rich(see critical for all of those SUVS and cheap flights in the US) and US friendly - so the weapons are a reflection that Israel is much more likely to be attacked(and now have been) post the Oct 2023 attacks. The calculus is that Israel keeps Iran and others at bay so the US doesn’t have to do so - the policy has little to do with Gaza. Hamas and Israel are using Gaza as pawn in that game. As we recognized the 1 year anniversary of the invasion, mass kidnappings, mass rape, and mass murder I wonder what Hamas expected to happen and I realize it is exactly what is happening. They retreat behind 2MM human shields, Bibi overreacts, Iran, Hezbollah, etc engage and maybe they get a regional conflict off of the blood of the people they claim to be governing and protecting. A nightmare all around.
The US stopped pretending to supply aid to Gaza months ago. And yeah, it was window dressing. It was not serious. And today? Israeli airstrikes kill at least 40 in Gaza. When will the bombardment end? Didn't Israel collectively punish Gaza enough? We're approaching 200,000 dead.
It is only alienating for folks who prefer Trump’s fasicist plan to their specific issue list. Again - Cheney isn’t saying he loves Harris - he is saying people who love this country should vote only candidate under which the constitution republic is sure to survive. If it doesn’t then all of these folks specific issues won’t matter anyway - they will be fighting for their own local rights or declaring loyalty to the 1 regime.
Harris came out of the gate strong. But the last month has totally demoralized me. She is not even attacking Trump well. She just repeats that line that Trump is "unserious," but another Trump terms would have serious circumstances. She is yet to attack Trump for suggesting that the military be deployed on US streets during election day to cause chaos.
Well, that is on Biden and his family. If Dr. Jill Biden had recognized what I saw in the fall of 2021, and had been a rational adult and told her husband to announce he wouldn't seek re-election, we would have had a more democratic process. But as I am finding with my elderly parents, the process of dying is often made worse by the relentless denial by the family that someone is dying. Also see: Diane Feinstein, RBG.
What’s so very dumb about touting these people is, if you give it even a modicum of thought, it’s not an endorsement of you, it’s a repudiation of trump. If you’re elected, those people will be lined up day one trying to torpedo any kind of agenda that you have for the constituency of the party. It’s the most cynical of politics to convince moderate republicans to vote for you knowing they want nothing to do with you and will be counting down the days to be able to vote for Vance in 2028.
Ok - but if Trump is elected what happens? Already lined up against all negative media orgs, ready to guy all govt agencies and put in political loyalists, justice system ready to mobilize against enemies, Gaza gone, Ukraine 50% gone, women’s rights gone, IVF maybe gone, Gay marriage etc on the table. Attacks on ‘vermin’ reticent of 1930s Germany? 2028 is a nightmare but if they Trump wins in 2024 - they literally are already saying the won’t certify elections if they thing there are problems with them so there won’t be any more 2 party system - it will be a 1 party with loyalty demanded. Let’s not stand on principle while the place burns down
Or… you could make the argument that you should be elected based on who you are on not who the other guy is, it’s the problem Biden couldn’t get away from by framing it solely about trump. Make people want to vote for you, not against the other guy. They’ll be the ones who have to wait 8 hours to try and vote in Georgia or have to deal with armed people standing outside polling places in Arizona
Nature abhors a vacuum. The GOP has now retreated so far to the authoritarian Right that there's a blank void over the Reagan-centered Republican swath of the electorate, so the Dems are kind of just swelling into the space left over. Sure, there were conscious decisions on both sides that led to this happening, but the overall effect is of the space just being filled with the available matter. We all joke/fret/complain about the "uniparty," but if the GOP keeps this up there really will be one.
The secondary goal of the Democratic Party is, just like it was in 2020, to exhaust and demoralize the left into resigned compliance for another 4 years.
Even 2.5 is enough; bc no one can mount a significant challenge to their party in less than 1.5 years.
The DNC doesn't want to win big, they want to win narrowly again; bc this keeps them both in power but enables them to feign helplessness at the same time, to avoid doing things the left wants but their Donors and their machine hacks don't.
This cycle of abuse stops only one way, with the left in a party of its own.
With the Dems, whose behavior reeks of desperation, I may stop labeling that other party as "Rethugs." Both do appear to be of that ilk, particularly due to their foreign policy and practice in the middle east and long the US-Mexican border (not to suggest that their shenanigans do not attempt penetration deeper into that country). So, as some might utter, "I 'wasted' my vote on Cornell West."
This is 100% right! While I would love to see her swing more to the left and truly embrace some popular (and needed) policies on health care, climate, infrastructure, monopolies, etc, as you said even just a crumb on Gaza with all the other center-right policies would really help change my mind.
Last month, I wrote about how politicians at least used to try to gaslight us. That's not even happening now- they're openly embracing their awfulness:
The deeply demoralizing comment section of this post
The mood of Blue MAGA is so far up its own ass they can look at the incineration of children and be like “I don’t think Harris promising to prevent this will poll well with the median voter”
a-fucking-men.
I can't stop thinking about how this would play on the other side. Like if the GOP was courting scientists for votes (be it climate scientists or abortion providers) or even the children of immigrants (which they do in Miami, but not nationwide). I'm sure their xenophobic, older male base would feel used and taken for granted. When I see Biden and now Harris court the neocon / war criminal vote, how am I supposed to feel? How can I not conclude that the Democratic party is not for me, and doesn't really value my vote no matter where I live? I'm upset! This is not OK!
I mean, you could pay attention to the real world for just like ten seconds and see how trump is constantly talking out of both sides of his mouth about abortion and see how the anti-choice zealots realise he's obviously lying and still support him instead of crying about staying home and not voting "in principled protest" because they understand that in the real world you win elections by getting the most votes, not by being the best virtue signaler.
I was going to add to my comment that of course Trump needs the votes of both his qanon base and fools who are willing to give him a second chance to rule. The GOP has been happy to accept voters who vote against their interests. Trump fans laugh at those voters and appreciate the "sucker" vote. But for a Democratic candidate to respond to endorsements that not a single Democratic voter over 40 wants nor values is the opposite of that. The Democratic response is mainly, "no, we don't want the votes of billionaires, billionaire war criminals, and the few people left alive who think that Reagan and Bush 43 were good presidents. We don't want the votes from people who think they can whitewash their bios by endorsing Harris." Compare this the GOP, which needs millions of crossover votes. The Democrats don't need that many defectors. Why must the Democrats even think of courting those votes? We outnumber the GOP in living registered voters by about 8 Million. Maybe 10 Million. If Harris was more of an Obama Democrat and less of a Neocon, she might win this thing. It's incredible. We're seeing the Clinton 'Pied Piper' strategy play out again. The Harris campaign is not for me. It's for readers of The Atlantic and the Washington Post, the pundits, the editors, and the cable news producer class.
no, i would actually like the votes of all these people, i want as many votes as i can get.
I can also do math and if I can take away a hesitant trump voter, it'll actually count double because it'll be minus one for him and plus one for Harris, which is literally the best possible voting outcome. even if they don't vote for Harris, all these shithead republicans saying trump fucking sucks don't vote for him can hopefully move someone to say, well I'm never going to vote for Harris, but I don't want to vote for trump now either and that's still an outcome I will take because it's still minus one for him.
Exactly, for every progressive they might lose, they'll pick up two moderate republicans in the suburbs. Just like in 2016. There's no reason why Hillary Clinton style triangulating can't work a second time.
james what makes you think anyone who reads this blog will want to hear your clueless lib nonsense, let alone take it seriously
These bitter, pinched-face shitlibs and their towering condescension for anyone that disagrees with them on absolutely anything are almost certainly driving people away from voting at all every time they open their stupid f*cking mouths to unleash some more fact-free invective at all the people that are actually smarter than them. Anything the Dems do, say, or fail to say or do is fine with these fucking losers with zero actual political beliefs. It's absolutely exhausting having to listen to these dipshits reach a new low day after day in service of a candidate that seems bent on repelling the voters in her base at every opportunity.
hey James how'd this work out for you
You don’t win elections in this dumb country by winning the most votes. You win by courting an extremely small sliver of the population in a few crucial states. Hence why you have Kamala about facing on fracking and essentially embracing Trump’s border policies.
Katherine Krueger has documented this her whole life it seems. I agree. But I fail to see how Wall Street prefers that abortion be illegal. After all, it was Nixon-era Republicans who made it legal in the first place. The mistresses needed medicine.
So I think you may be missing the stories on the falling birth rates (worldwide) and how not being able to control how many children you have drives down women's wages and makes for desperation/acceptance of worse working conditions. Wall Street isn't sitting in a cabal planning, but capitalism needs people in poverty and desperate to cheapen labor. They see that America's empire abroad, the thing that made the large middle class possible, is in decline. They know that abortion is always legal to those wealthy enough. Everything is legal if you have enough money--look at Epstein, look at Diddy.
I'm an old, broken, traumatized New Yorker. It saddens me to encounter someone a lot more broken than myself.
Did Harris court Dick Cheney? Did she court Gonzales? I feel like that is an overstatement of what is happening. And your point on the scientists is a good one. But that is a cult right now so that is how a cult behaves - anyone not touting the exact party line is declared an enemy. A party contains a diverse set of views but a single set of goals (in this case preserve free democracy )
She didn't court them. But why did she respond? Not responding is a choice. And it would have put some pressure on the Neocons to explain their flip. Unless, Harris secretly agreed that she would respond if she got the endorsements. We don't know, but this could have been conditional.
just fyi, her campaign is courting them very aggressively, and she personally courted liz cheney. this is a very deliberate strategy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/29/harris-campaign-courts-prominent-republican-endorsements/
Not an original thought by me, but it really feels like this is an election run by two campaigns actively trying to lose. Alternatively, each party nominated the only person who could lose to their opponent. In other words, we’re reliving 2016. Again. As we apparently will be til the oceans swallow us whole.
Umm - one just replaced their candidate that was going to lose to the opponnent, just about 120 days ago. So. . . No
And how’s that going? Statistically tied to a sociopathic racist, sexist antisemite (to name but a few) who tried to overthrow the government. And the Dems’ response is—as Katherine points out in the blog—to actively alienate critical portions of their base by antagonizing the left, the young, progressives, etc., by courting war criminals and loser never Trump gopers—who command no statistically significant percentage of the voting populace—and saying there’s apparently no daylight between Kamala and Biden when it comes to supporting a genocide. Brilliant strategy.
And supporting genocide is a talking point. The US aid orgs and Govt are providing 100s of millions in supplies etc to Gaza and Ukraine - you don’t do that if you support the elimination of those peoples. You may not like policies but that is not support for genocide(and what until they see Trump’s positions on those 2 - buckle up as it will actually be support for genocide
Your responses show you are an unserious individual not worth responding to. Have a good day.
I am not. It is simple - if you care about any marginalized people anywhere in the world, it clear that one candidate consider them ‘scum’ , ‘vermin’ etc and will never help them. Many are desperate to ensure that person does not take over the most powerful nation in the world. Many are putting aside policy issues to ensure that doesn’t happen. Some are not willing to do so and they are risking things becoming much much worse on the very issues upon which Their objections rest so make their point. I respect their right do so it and it is a pincipled stand. But the above is not really in dispute is it?
They’re supplying the weapons!
The US is also supplying food, medicine, transport passages when possible, etc. Again - you may not like the policy but it isn’t genocide it is more complicated than that. Also - a lot of nations are supplying weapons so it isn’t like the US is solely enabling anything. The hard reality is that Israel is the only anchor in a part of the world that is both energy rich(see critical for all of those SUVS and cheap flights in the US) and US friendly - so the weapons are a reflection that Israel is much more likely to be attacked(and now have been) post the Oct 2023 attacks. The calculus is that Israel keeps Iran and others at bay so the US doesn’t have to do so - the policy has little to do with Gaza. Hamas and Israel are using Gaza as pawn in that game. As we recognized the 1 year anniversary of the invasion, mass kidnappings, mass rape, and mass murder I wonder what Hamas expected to happen and I realize it is exactly what is happening. They retreat behind 2MM human shields, Bibi overreacts, Iran, Hezbollah, etc engage and maybe they get a regional conflict off of the blood of the people they claim to be governing and protecting. A nightmare all around.
It isn’t more complicated than that
Israeli officials said “we’re going to wipe out everyone in Gaza” and now they’re doing that.
just a few things:
a huge number of experts on human rights and genocide have said that israel is committing genocide: https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/is-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza/
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2024/06/06/is-israel-committing-genocide-aryeh-neier/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-engaged-in-genocidal-actions-in-gaza-says-israeli-american-holocaust-scholar/3308314
israeli military officials have said that their assault on gaza wouldn't last more than a few months without us support: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-02/ty-article-magazine/.premium/without-u-s-aid-israel-would-have-struggled-to-fight-in-gaza-beyond-a-few-months/00000191-aec2-d875-a3bb-aed7e2e30000
the united states has provided over 50,000 tons of weapons to israel over the past year: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-says-us-shipments-of-arms-and-equipment-during-war-exceeds-50000-tons/
i leave people to draw their own conclusions about all of that.
The US stopped pretending to supply aid to Gaza months ago. And yeah, it was window dressing. It was not serious. And today? Israeli airstrikes kill at least 40 in Gaza. When will the bombardment end? Didn't Israel collectively punish Gaza enough? We're approaching 200,000 dead.
go away tom nobody here believes your bullshit. a talking point. gtfo
It is only alienating for folks who prefer Trump’s fasicist plan to their specific issue list. Again - Cheney isn’t saying he loves Harris - he is saying people who love this country should vote only candidate under which the constitution republic is sure to survive. If it doesn’t then all of these folks specific issues won’t matter anyway - they will be fighting for their own local rights or declaring loyalty to the 1 regime.
Why do you think 2/3 of voters turning out in America in 2020 was record-setting?
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/12/donald-trump-anti-semitic-remarks
And he said the almost exact thing 5 years later
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-jews-vote-democrats-hate-israel-religion-rcna143988
Harris came out of the gate strong. But the last month has totally demoralized me. She is not even attacking Trump well. She just repeats that line that Trump is "unserious," but another Trump terms would have serious circumstances. She is yet to attack Trump for suggesting that the military be deployed on US streets during election day to cause chaos.
Agreed. He is vulnerable with this wild suggestions of late.
Well, that is on Biden and his family. If Dr. Jill Biden had recognized what I saw in the fall of 2021, and had been a rational adult and told her husband to announce he wouldn't seek re-election, we would have had a more democratic process. But as I am finding with my elderly parents, the process of dying is often made worse by the relentless denial by the family that someone is dying. Also see: Diane Feinstein, RBG.
What’s so very dumb about touting these people is, if you give it even a modicum of thought, it’s not an endorsement of you, it’s a repudiation of trump. If you’re elected, those people will be lined up day one trying to torpedo any kind of agenda that you have for the constituency of the party. It’s the most cynical of politics to convince moderate republicans to vote for you knowing they want nothing to do with you and will be counting down the days to be able to vote for Vance in 2028.
Ok - but if Trump is elected what happens? Already lined up against all negative media orgs, ready to guy all govt agencies and put in political loyalists, justice system ready to mobilize against enemies, Gaza gone, Ukraine 50% gone, women’s rights gone, IVF maybe gone, Gay marriage etc on the table. Attacks on ‘vermin’ reticent of 1930s Germany? 2028 is a nightmare but if they Trump wins in 2024 - they literally are already saying the won’t certify elections if they thing there are problems with them so there won’t be any more 2 party system - it will be a 1 party with loyalty demanded. Let’s not stand on principle while the place burns down
Or… you could make the argument that you should be elected based on who you are on not who the other guy is, it’s the problem Biden couldn’t get away from by framing it solely about trump. Make people want to vote for you, not against the other guy. They’ll be the ones who have to wait 8 hours to try and vote in Georgia or have to deal with armed people standing outside polling places in Arizona
“Then Bernie Sanders poops into Dick Cheney’s butt with the same poop. Pooping back and forth. Forever.” Politics in US, probably.
I just want to comment that I got and appreciate the Miranda July reference.
Nature abhors a vacuum. The GOP has now retreated so far to the authoritarian Right that there's a blank void over the Reagan-centered Republican swath of the electorate, so the Dems are kind of just swelling into the space left over. Sure, there were conscious decisions on both sides that led to this happening, but the overall effect is of the space just being filled with the available matter. We all joke/fret/complain about the "uniparty," but if the GOP keeps this up there really will be one.
The dems ate following the money not the people
It just occurred to me that the Dems love headlines like this. They want anyone left of Brooklyn Dad Defiant to feel demoralized.
The secondary goal of the Democratic Party is, just like it was in 2020, to exhaust and demoralize the left into resigned compliance for another 4 years.
Even 2.5 is enough; bc no one can mount a significant challenge to their party in less than 1.5 years.
The DNC doesn't want to win big, they want to win narrowly again; bc this keeps them both in power but enables them to feign helplessness at the same time, to avoid doing things the left wants but their Donors and their machine hacks don't.
This cycle of abuse stops only one way, with the left in a party of its own.
“Brat fall”: meanwhile Arabs burn in flames while we watch in agony. I finally agree with Chris Hedges: the Democratic Party cannot be reformed.
I'm sick. Sick at heart.
With the Dems, whose behavior reeks of desperation, I may stop labeling that other party as "Rethugs." Both do appear to be of that ilk, particularly due to their foreign policy and practice in the middle east and long the US-Mexican border (not to suggest that their shenanigans do not attempt penetration deeper into that country). So, as some might utter, "I 'wasted' my vote on Cornell West."
These fuckers are going to demoralize me enough to stay home, even if it means mark fucking robinson wins the NC governor's mansion.
This is 100% right! While I would love to see her swing more to the left and truly embrace some popular (and needed) policies on health care, climate, infrastructure, monopolies, etc, as you said even just a crumb on Gaza with all the other center-right policies would really help change my mind.
Last month, I wrote about how politicians at least used to try to gaslight us. That's not even happening now- they're openly embracing their awfulness:
https://heathracela.substack.com/p/no-excuses
Its laughable calling Dems Dems. Its all about money and power and kicking as to the Arabs specifically and non whites in general.
Ohhhhh. You’re the chapo girlfriend. Now all this boring ass shit makes sense.