Biden got in one really good one, in my opinion, and for the purposes of ousting Trump (which is the only way we can build to any of the other goals), I hope they stick it in every single ad: "How many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID?"
That was the one sound bite that I felt articulated exactly what he had to say about the one issue that any mythical undecided voters will probably pivot around.
how naïve of those in the office hours comments expecting there would be "talking points" and "answers" to questions. the only thing i got out of it was both candidates were telling the left to fuck off.
And yet, Biden couldn't slam the door. Even Amy or Pete, to say nothing of Bernie or SPW, would have hammered him on a LOT of stuff. Where's the $421M? Why are his positions the preferred positions of white supremacists? How come WE'RE ALL INSIDE AND DYING?
I feel worse about our chances now than I did after the debates four years ago. Can't tell if I'm misanthropic or just numbed.
Slam the door on what? Trump won't answer any question, he'll just bring up Hunter (again) or whatever. He's a slimy piece of shit, which is why trying a gotcha question doesn't matter. The one thing he's good at is changing the subject.
You're probably right. It's frustrating to have someone who won't play by the rules, even when we know that going in. But I think he gets flustered around women, which was why I was a big Warren guy, and I also think Bernie would have no patience for being interrupted. You can't defer to a bully. Sometimes you've got to hit them in the mouth instead of waiting for them to stop. That's not who Biden is and it's ridiculous to expect that performance from him I guess.
More than anything, I want to see the current POTUS get punched square in the mouth. Repeatedly. Forever.
I agree. But remember what a creepy fuck he was with Hilary during the debates. I love Warren & greatly wish that she was up there last night instead of Biden. And I know she's actually talk policy. But would she had "gotten" Trump? Unfortunately, I don't think so. He'd just respond to any question he didn't like by calling her names and using ethnic slurs.
And Biden didn't have patience with being interrupted either, provoked into that "Will you just shut up, man" response, which people loved.
If Bernie had been there, Trump would have acted no differently. No matter how loudly or persistently Bernie had tried to speak, Trump would still have interrupted him and spoke over him. Maybe Bernie would have gotten his message out regardless. Maybe more of the audience would have had a "they're both shout-y old men" reaction. Hard to say.
Eh, I still believe really banging on him not being rich, him losing millions, him having to pay for sex and so on would really make him squirm but Biden will never do that because it would be stooping to his level.
In fairness neither would bernie but bernie also would just ignore his bullshit and do what he has always done, appeal to the material reality of most of the people in this country
Bernie would have had a debate on the topics of his choosing and no one would have been able to do anything about it, and the nation would be better for it.
And Biden DID appeal to the material reality of the people of this country, several times. The way he spoke with empathy and understanding about supporting a family member who has struggled with addiction will resonate with a lot of people. At least give him some credit for pulling that off a few times.
But all those questions have been asked of him in the past and he doesn't squirm, he just talks about how "women love him" and how good of a business man he is and that those numbers don't mean anything. And his base love that shit. The fact that he's raped/conned beautiful women is a PLUS to those assholes. As is the fact that he has fucked over the government in regard to taxes. That's their dream, to continue to benefit from government largess without paying for it at all & saying how terrible it is.
I don't think that's entirely true, based on the folks I know who support him. There's definitely some "own the libs" folks but there are also people who believe they're making a compromise on morals because they've got a good businessman who is allied with their causes. Slamming him on his business failings weakens that argument. It's not all bloodlust.
But it's not news that he's a shitty businessman. He was hammered in the GOP primary debates on that, he's been hammered in the press about it since, and Hilary brought it up in 2016. I don't understand how anyone could be surprised that he's deeply in debt & also doesn't pay taxes.
And all the Susan Collins types out there don't give a shit about any of his personal failings anyway. All they care about is that he's packing the courts and pushing their agenda, so they'll continue to support him as they mildly disapprove of who he is & what he does.
I agree, but I want to offer a counternarrative. If you're avoiding "liberal" news, even if you're just reading the WSJ not to mention watching Fox, then there's not a lot of coverage of that. What you do know is that there are buildings around the world with TRUMP at the top of them. And if Jake Tapper tells you Donald Trump is a fraud, well - you're probably not wrong if you think Jake Tapper hates Donald Trump. So you can miss that drumbeat in the same way that it was kind of easy to miss the drumbeat on the Clinton Foundation in 2016 if you just read, like, Slate the whole time. And Trump has allied with religious conservatives who can make that leap if it suits them. So hitting on the bad businessman stuff in this context is one new avenue to expose people who think they've got a canny operator on their side to the reality that he's a fraud.
I love that they basically just had an argument and all these weird WASP debate club dorks lost their minds over it.
I don't want to see two suits respectfully agree to disagree on whether blacks have any rights a cop is bound to respect, I want to see someone mad as hell, shouting over someone, not letting them get one word of their cynical bullshit in edgewise. THATS how you make a case you're someone to vote for.
Instead we got joe biden chuckling, smiling down at his podium thinking about how this rube doesn't even get the rules of debate! Doesn't he know how many points the moderators are gonna dock Hi m?
Oh also, thanks biden for your brilliant stratagem of giving trump an uninterrupted chance to speak to his white nationalist supporters, and having no plan for when he didn't dissolve into a stammering embarassed mess but instead tripled down like he always does.
It's also so ahistorical to claim this to be some horrific outlier. Do they not remember the 2008 GOP primary debates with Giuliani/McCain/Romney/etc all just taking petty personal potshots at each other for nothing but personal satisfaction? This sort of shit has been the norm for years now, it's just Trump is so much less subtle about it--just as with the corruption, the cruelty of his implementation of GOP policy, etc.
In the world we live in, debates are stupid & pointless. No one--not the candidates, moderators, pundits or parties--want an actual debate, they just want to get in a few zings that will go viral or become a meme or be used in their fundraising with lines like "watch our candidate DESTROY that other dude".
I already voted, so I doubly don't give a shit. Not that my vote matters since I'm not in a Presidential swing state and literally every other race that I cast a vote in, from State Rep up, either has a candidate running unopposed or has zero chance of losing to their opponent.
Yeah I let my curiosity get the best of me and glanced at the Breitbart front page this morning. It's all "scorched earth" and "most aggressive display of dominance in American history" and such.
I wonder if what is really motivating the pundit freakout is not that it was an ugly spectacle that made a mockery of reasoned discussion and political discourse (as almost all presidential debates are) BUT ALSO that it was unwatchable television
Also, did they watch the 2016 debates? Trump's behavior has not changed. They needed a way to turn off his mic then, and they still need one now. This was entirely forseeable
This: "Why does George W. Bush lying us into a war never get these kinds of outraged descriptions?"
These fools are so insulated it really has been all about decorum for them this entire time. Policy and suffering literally has no meaning for them beyond the optics that can generate for their brands and cliques.
Got just what I expected. Doesn't make that turd sandwich any easier to eat. I have two daughters and I really do fear what their future will bring. F'ing Proud Boys, WTF.
Which is wild since the best moment of the debate--Biden talking about his son's addiction battle with empathy and support, something that probably resonated with thousands of people more than anything else--was full of decency and got ignored. I'm not even a big Biden fan and I liked that.
You know what was good about the debate, though? The Discord!
Biden got in one really good one, in my opinion, and for the purposes of ousting Trump (which is the only way we can build to any of the other goals), I hope they stick it in every single ad: "How many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of COVID?"
That was the one sound bite that I felt articulated exactly what he had to say about the one issue that any mythical undecided voters will probably pivot around.
I did not invest in these pearls for them to go un-clutched, SIR.
how naïve of those in the office hours comments expecting there would be "talking points" and "answers" to questions. the only thing i got out of it was both candidates were telling the left to fuck off.
And yet, Biden couldn't slam the door. Even Amy or Pete, to say nothing of Bernie or SPW, would have hammered him on a LOT of stuff. Where's the $421M? Why are his positions the preferred positions of white supremacists? How come WE'RE ALL INSIDE AND DYING?
I feel worse about our chances now than I did after the debates four years ago. Can't tell if I'm misanthropic or just numbed.
Slam the door on what? Trump won't answer any question, he'll just bring up Hunter (again) or whatever. He's a slimy piece of shit, which is why trying a gotcha question doesn't matter. The one thing he's good at is changing the subject.
You're probably right. It's frustrating to have someone who won't play by the rules, even when we know that going in. But I think he gets flustered around women, which was why I was a big Warren guy, and I also think Bernie would have no patience for being interrupted. You can't defer to a bully. Sometimes you've got to hit them in the mouth instead of waiting for them to stop. That's not who Biden is and it's ridiculous to expect that performance from him I guess.
More than anything, I want to see the current POTUS get punched square in the mouth. Repeatedly. Forever.
I agree. But remember what a creepy fuck he was with Hilary during the debates. I love Warren & greatly wish that she was up there last night instead of Biden. And I know she's actually talk policy. But would she had "gotten" Trump? Unfortunately, I don't think so. He'd just respond to any question he didn't like by calling her names and using ethnic slurs.
And Biden didn't have patience with being interrupted either, provoked into that "Will you just shut up, man" response, which people loved.
If Bernie had been there, Trump would have acted no differently. No matter how loudly or persistently Bernie had tried to speak, Trump would still have interrupted him and spoke over him. Maybe Bernie would have gotten his message out regardless. Maybe more of the audience would have had a "they're both shout-y old men" reaction. Hard to say.
Eh, I still believe really banging on him not being rich, him losing millions, him having to pay for sex and so on would really make him squirm but Biden will never do that because it would be stooping to his level.
In fairness neither would bernie but bernie also would just ignore his bullshit and do what he has always done, appeal to the material reality of most of the people in this country
Bernie would have had a debate on the topics of his choosing and no one would have been able to do anything about it, and the nation would be better for it.
And Biden DID appeal to the material reality of the people of this country, several times. The way he spoke with empathy and understanding about supporting a family member who has struggled with addiction will resonate with a lot of people. At least give him some credit for pulling that off a few times.
But all those questions have been asked of him in the past and he doesn't squirm, he just talks about how "women love him" and how good of a business man he is and that those numbers don't mean anything. And his base love that shit. The fact that he's raped/conned beautiful women is a PLUS to those assholes. As is the fact that he has fucked over the government in regard to taxes. That's their dream, to continue to benefit from government largess without paying for it at all & saying how terrible it is.
I don't think that's entirely true, based on the folks I know who support him. There's definitely some "own the libs" folks but there are also people who believe they're making a compromise on morals because they've got a good businessman who is allied with their causes. Slamming him on his business failings weakens that argument. It's not all bloodlust.
But it's not news that he's a shitty businessman. He was hammered in the GOP primary debates on that, he's been hammered in the press about it since, and Hilary brought it up in 2016. I don't understand how anyone could be surprised that he's deeply in debt & also doesn't pay taxes.
And all the Susan Collins types out there don't give a shit about any of his personal failings anyway. All they care about is that he's packing the courts and pushing their agenda, so they'll continue to support him as they mildly disapprove of who he is & what he does.
I agree, but I want to offer a counternarrative. If you're avoiding "liberal" news, even if you're just reading the WSJ not to mention watching Fox, then there's not a lot of coverage of that. What you do know is that there are buildings around the world with TRUMP at the top of them. And if Jake Tapper tells you Donald Trump is a fraud, well - you're probably not wrong if you think Jake Tapper hates Donald Trump. So you can miss that drumbeat in the same way that it was kind of easy to miss the drumbeat on the Clinton Foundation in 2016 if you just read, like, Slate the whole time. And Trump has allied with religious conservatives who can make that leap if it suits them. So hitting on the bad businessman stuff in this context is one new avenue to expose people who think they've got a canny operator on their side to the reality that he's a fraud.
Dems would have done better to put a cardboard cutout of an Arby's sandwich on stage
Big Beef & Cheddar 2020
I love that they basically just had an argument and all these weird WASP debate club dorks lost their minds over it.
I don't want to see two suits respectfully agree to disagree on whether blacks have any rights a cop is bound to respect, I want to see someone mad as hell, shouting over someone, not letting them get one word of their cynical bullshit in edgewise. THATS how you make a case you're someone to vote for.
Instead we got joe biden chuckling, smiling down at his podium thinking about how this rube doesn't even get the rules of debate! Doesn't he know how many points the moderators are gonna dock Hi m?
Oh also, thanks biden for your brilliant stratagem of giving trump an uninterrupted chance to speak to his white nationalist supporters, and having no plan for when he didn't dissolve into a stammering embarassed mess but instead tripled down like he always does.
I'm also going to use this thread to complain about AROD. Why does ESPN have a cheater announcing a playoff game? He's also a terrible commentator.
It's also so ahistorical to claim this to be some horrific outlier. Do they not remember the 2008 GOP primary debates with Giuliani/McCain/Romney/etc all just taking petty personal potshots at each other for nothing but personal satisfaction? This sort of shit has been the norm for years now, it's just Trump is so much less subtle about it--just as with the corruption, the cruelty of his implementation of GOP policy, etc.
In the world we live in, debates are stupid & pointless. No one--not the candidates, moderators, pundits or parties--want an actual debate, they just want to get in a few zings that will go viral or become a meme or be used in their fundraising with lines like "watch our candidate DESTROY that other dude".
I already voted, so I doubly don't give a shit. Not that my vote matters since I'm not in a Presidential swing state and literally every other race that I cast a vote in, from State Rep up, either has a candidate running unopposed or has zero chance of losing to their opponent.
Fuck this shit.
Yeah I let my curiosity get the best of me and glanced at the Breitbart front page this morning. It's all "scorched earth" and "most aggressive display of dominance in American history" and such.
Trump, more aggressively dominant than a nuclear weapon on a civilian target.
Trump took out "Earpiece Joe" like a drone strike on a preschool.
I wonder if what is really motivating the pundit freakout is not that it was an ugly spectacle that made a mockery of reasoned discussion and political discourse (as almost all presidential debates are) BUT ALSO that it was unwatchable television
Told one of my friends to please take me off the group email chain before I call out 3 or 4 people for being Nazi pieces of trash.
Also, did they watch the 2016 debates? Trump's behavior has not changed. They needed a way to turn off his mic then, and they still need one now. This was entirely forseeable
This: "Why does George W. Bush lying us into a war never get these kinds of outraged descriptions?"
These fools are so insulated it really has been all about decorum for them this entire time. Policy and suffering literally has no meaning for them beyond the optics that can generate for their brands and cliques.
*that can be generated*
Jesus, we're so fucked. I knew it would be bad but...jesus.
Got just what I expected. Doesn't make that turd sandwich any easier to eat. I have two daughters and I really do fear what their future will bring. F'ing Proud Boys, WTF.
“If he just appeared to show a little more decency, there’s no telling what the pundits would let him get away with.”
Good gravy, don’t give him any ideas. (I’m kidding — there’s no swaying the proudest boy of all.)
Which is wild since the best moment of the debate--Biden talking about his son's addiction battle with empathy and support, something that probably resonated with thousands of people more than anything else--was full of decency and got ignored. I'm not even a big Biden fan and I liked that.
Bingo. Mods need to go Around the Horn and cut mics at the next debate. There's no penalty for being rude, which the GOP has exploited for decades.
Put Tony Reali in as Debate moderator!